Return-Path: Received: from ehdarby.com ([67.33.59.6] verified) by realpeople.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.16) with ESMTP id 1550971 for Helix-L@realpeople.com; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:36:44 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=realpeople.com; client-ip=67.33.59.6; envelope-from=ehd@ehdarby.com Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([67.33.59.6]) by ehdarby.com (Post.Office MTA v3.8.4 release 116 ID# 1001-64977U100L10S0V38) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:36:10 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--679308316 Message-Id: <1CB01601-8169-4CE8-8CF8-B02280661274@ehdarby.com> From: Elton Darby Subject: Re: [Hx] Comcast Business Class Hell - OFF Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:36:09 -0500 To: "Helix Discussion List" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) --Apple-Mail-2--679308316 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed > Just for clarity though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS =20 > propagation via a WhoIs and the Network Utility/Lookup in that =20 > those will show it has propagated to the particular WhoIs server =20 > you hit, and the DNS used by the machine running the Network =20 > Utility; however, there still may be many incorrect DNS servers out =20= > there unless you wait the full two days I sticking with my contention, giving my experience this weekend, =20 that it all happens much quicker that the claim of "up to 48 hours"; =20 ie: I swapped my root DNS server from Bellsouth to Network Solutions =20 and the terminating DNS IP# from Bellsouth to Comcast @ 1:00AM on =20 8.21.10 -- swapped the terminating IP back to Bellsouth's IP @ =20 8:00AM. It did not take very long for my email and other server =20 calls to start working after each swap. BTW: If it seriously took 48 =20= hours after each change, I would not be receiving email yet and we =20 would not have been able to discuss this topic thru the weekend ;) Thanks again for trying to help; Elton -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld On Aug 22, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Greg Myers wrote: > I don't doubt DNS is not your problem at this point. If you indeed =20 > have no Internet at all (can't even ping a known IP address) over =20 > the connection, it is not likely a DNS issue. Just for clarity =20 > though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS propagation via a WhoIs =20 > and the Network Utility/Lookup in that those will show it has =20 > propagated to the particular WhoIs server you hit, and the DNS used =20= > by the machine running the Network Utility; however, there still =20 > may be many incorrect DNS servers out there unless you wait the =20 > full two days. That time about one day in when whether a request =20 > goes to the new address or the old address seems totally random is =20 > particularly annoying. > > I am blessed with no firsthand knowledge of using the services of =20 > Comcast, and I'm sorry you can't make the same claim. ;) > > Greg Myers > Chapel Hill, NC > > > On 8/22/10 4:33 PM, Elton wrote: >> >> I do not have DNS problems; yes I waited for the DNS to propagate =20 >> the change to the Comcast static IP's -- then I waited for it to =20 >> propagate back to Bellsouth's static IP, after I gave up with =20 >> Comcast. Such is generally much quicker than the "up to 48 hour" =20 >> claim; you can monitor it via a WhoIs and the Network Utility/=20 >> Lookup functions. >> >> My problem is I can't use the Comcast SMC Gateway as my =20 >> primary router in our server environment for the reasons outlined =20 >> (seems to be a common problem, as confirmed by Comcast as other =20 >> via google boards) -- no problem in my other 4 offices that don't =20 >> have servers. >> >> My question has nothing to do with DNS, but connectivity at this =20 >> point; I can't get the Comcast SMC Gateway in its semi-bridge =20 >> mode, to work in front of my Netopia R910 router. This could be =20 >> me or the Netopia, but I couldn't get it to work after spending =20 >> all night trying -- no connectivity. >> >> Thank for trying to help; >> >> Elton >> >> --------------------------- >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >> >> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Greg Myers wrote: >> >>> Did you wait the needed two days after changing the DNS entry to =20 >>> test it? Like I said, I am totally guessing for possibilities, =20 >>> but impatience with DNS changes is typically the problem that =20 >>> bites me when I do similar changes. >>> >>> Greg Myers >>> Chapel Hill, NC >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Elton wrote: >>> >>>>> Putting the static IP on the WAN port makes perfect sense given =20= >>>>> what you describe >>>> >>>> I guess it does, as my Netopia's WAN setup defines the login and =20= >>>> PAP/CHAP to Bellsouth, as well as the NAT, Compression Method, =20 >>>> Firewall, etc., etc. -- it just does not work with this Comcast =20 >>>> (2) IP/passthrough static setup on their SMC that will not allow =20= >>>> true bridge-mode. >>>> >>>> If you are talking about a more less complicated Netgear or =20 >>>> Linksys router interface, it does look simple to do, but "not so =20= >>>> much" with our (old school) Netopia R910 -- maybe I'll just get =20 >>>> another router (just got burned the last time I did this). >>>> >>>> If I google topics related to this Comcast SMC Gateway, problems =20= >>>> seem rampant in server environments and there are a myriad of =20 >>>> suggestions with no clear solution -- so, it not just me ;) >>>> >>>> >>>>> I expected some comment on your DNS settings. The absence of =20 >>>>> such a comment makes mean think that =20 >>>>> is the source of your issues. >>>> >>>> I didn't comment on DNS my because the Comcast SMC in front of =20 >>>> the Netopia will not work at all; no point in discussing DNS if =20 >>>> you have no internet at all. >>>> >>>> The DNS worked fine with the Comcast SMC acting a the primary =20 >>>> router; but I can use the SMC as my primary router for the =20 >>>> reasons outlined. >>>> >>>> My DNS has pointed to my Bellsouth DSL static IP, since 1996 -- =20 >>>> all has worked perfectly. I moved =20 >>>> my registrar's (Network =20 >>>> Solutions) pointers to the Comcast static IP -- all port-=20 >>>> forwarding to my servers worked if you are not inside the SMC's =20 >>>> LAN with the servers. I recall this problem in another office =20 >>>> that used the Comcast SMC when testing Windows 2003 server =20 >>>> remote desktop, you could not test from inside the office LAN =20 >>>> and learned that the Comcast SMC =20 >>>> will not properly handle port forwarding when the calls =20 >>>> originate from the SMC's LAN. Also port 8080 is hardcoded as =20 >>>> the SMC's remote admin port, which is Tomcat's default port, =20 >>>> etc. -- this maybe another reason why Comcast does not recommend =20= >>>> using the SMC Gateway as a primary router -- they encourage you =20 >>>> to use it as a bridge-mode TA, in front of a "real router". It =20 >>>> would be much easier to do this if they provided such a device =20 >>>> (as they used to do on noe-business accounts) vs. this =20 >>>> problematic router without true bridge-mode capabilities. >>>> >>>> >>>> Elton >>>> >>>> --------------------------- >>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >>>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Greg Myers wrote: >>>> >>>>> Putting the static IP on the WAN port makes perfect sense given =20= >>>>> what you describe, but I expected some comment on your DNS =20 >>>>> settings. The absence of such a comment makes mean think that =20 >>>>> is the source of your issues. Just a wild guess on my part, but =20= >>>>> it is often a good place to start. >>>>> >>>>> Greg Myers >>>>> Chapel Hill, NC >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Gib Henry =20 >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've heard horror tales about Comcast broadband=97but then =20 >>>>>> again, I can tell you first-hand horror stories about =20 >>>>>> Bellsouth DSL. Have you looked at hiwaay.net? My experience =20 >>>>>> with their predecessors and with them was nothing but =20 >>>>>> positive; it's just that they couldn't match cable speeds (if/=20 >>>>>> when Bright House/Road Runner is working). At least they make =20= >>>>>> a reliable backup for cable broadband. >>>>>> >>>>>> And what about the power-grid networks we were hearing about =20 >>>>>> some years ago? The power companies were going to offer phone =20= >>>>>> and internet across their powerlines, but that hasn't =20 >>>>>> materialized as far as I know. >>>>>> >>>>>> For some reason, American DSL seems to be limited to about =20 >>>>>> 1.5Mbps down (and whatever they throttle you to for upload), =20 >>>>>> which mystifies me, because in Europe, DSL speeds can exceed =20 >>>>>> 20Mbps. I've heard that our infrastructure (phone lines) just =20= >>>>>> won't do any better, but my office is directly across the =20 >>>>>> street from the telco central office...? The fiber-optic =20 >>>>>> folks were interested in stringing a line across the street, =20 >>>>>> but not enough users in the building were willing to sign up =20 >>>>>> (sigh). Cheers, >>>>>> --=20 >>>>>> >>>>>> Gib >>>>>> >>>>>> On 8/21/10 6:00 PM, Elton wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm moving from Bellsouth DSL to Comcast Business Class. =20 >>>>>>> Either I'm not getting something, or the Comcast tech support =20= >>>>>>> that I spoke to told me wrong, but I cannot get the Comcast =20 >>>>>>> SMC Gateway to work with our R910 Netopia router (also =20 >>>>>>> learned that I cannot use the Comcast SMC as a primary =20 >>>>>>> router; will not route properly inside the LAN to the WAN =20 >>>>>>> back to our servers; assume this is why few use it as a =20 >>>>>>> primary router in a server environment, from what Comcast =20 >>>>>>> tells me). Comcast issued me (2) IP#"; the Gateway's IP =20 >>>>>>> #XX.XX.XX.106 and my static IP #XX.XX.XX.105. They told me =20 >>>>>>> how to set the Comcast SMC Gateway to "semi-bridge =20 >>>>>>> mode" (basically: turn of everything, check the first 2 of 3 =20 >>>>>>> features to all "True Static IP Passthrough", uncheck =20 >>>>>>> "provide DHCP", etc., then told me to connect out router to =20 >>>>>>> the SMC Gateway, and go into our router's WAN setup =20 >>>>>>> and "assign it to the #105 =20= >>>>>>> static IP# they issued" (which makes no sense, IMO) -- I =20 >>>>>>> tried this 20-times, to no avail. Maybe its me or maybe its =20 >>>>>>> our Netopia R910 (old school) router (which is not so simple =20 >>>>>>> to do this with it's: address translations, compression, PAP/=20 >>>>>>> CHAP, firewall, options, etc., etc. settings in the WAN =20 >>>>>>> setup) -- but I could not get it to work after spending all =20 >>>>>>> night trying. Reverted all back to the Bellsouth/Netopia setup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone have any experience with this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank!; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Elton >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=20 >>>>>>> =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the =20 >>>>>>> mailing list . To unsubscribe, e-=20 >>>>>>> mail ; to switch to DIGEST mode, =20 >>>>>>> e-mail ; contact a human being =20= >>>>>>> at . Google archive since 20 =20= >>>>>>> August 2006: http://groups.google.com/group/helix-l. Basic =20 >>>>>>> archive since 1 Jan 2006: http://mail.realpeople.com:8100/=20 >>>>>>> Lists/Helix-L/List.html >>>>>>> >>>> >> --Apple-Mail-2--679308316 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252

Just for clarity though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS = propagation via a WhoIs and the Network Utility/Lookup in that those = will show it has propagated to the particular WhoIs server you hit, and = the DNS used by the machine running the Network Utility; however, there = still may be many incorrect DNS servers out there unless you wait the = full two days

I sticking with my = contention, giving my experience this weekend, that it all happens much = quicker that the claim of "up to 48 hours"; ie: I swapped my root DNS = server from Bellsouth to Network Solutions and the terminating DNS IP# = from Bellsouth to Comcast @ 1:00AM on 8.21.10 -- swapped the terminating = IP back to Bellsouth's IP @ 8:00AM.  It did not take very long for = my email and other server calls to start working after each swap. =  BTW: If it seriously took 48 hours after each change, I would not = be receiving email yet and we would not have been able to discuss this = topic thru the weekend ;)


Thanks again for trying to help;


Elton


--------------------------

Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

=

On Aug 22, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Greg Myers = wrote:

I don't doubt DNS is not your problem at this point. = If you indeed have no Internet at all (can't even ping a known IP = address) over the connection, it is not likely a DNS issue. Just for = clarity though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS propagation via a = WhoIs and the Network Utility/Lookup in that those will show it has = propagated to the particular WhoIs server you hit, and the DNS used = by the machine running the Network Utility; however, there still may = be many incorrect DNS servers out there unless you wait the full two = days. That time about one day in when whether a request goes to the = new address or the old address seems totally random is particularly = annoying.

I am blessed with no firsthand knowledge of = using the services of Comcast, and I'm sorry you can't make the same = claim. ;)

Greg Myers
= Chapel Hill, NC


On 8/22/10 = 4:33 PM, Elton wrote:
I do not = have DNS problems; yes I waited for the DNS to propagate the change = to the Comcast static IP's -- then I waited for it to propagate = back to Bellsouth's static IP, after I gave up with Comcast. =  Such is generally much quicker than the "up to 48 hour" = claim; you can monitor it via a WhoIs and the Network = Utility/Lookup functions.

My = problem is I can't use the Comcast SMC Gateway as my primary = router in our server environment for the reasons outlined (seems = to be a common problem, as confirmed by Comcast as other via = google boards) -- no problem in my other 4 offices that don't = have servers.  

My = question has nothing to do with DNS, but connectivity at this = point; I can't get the Comcast SMC Gateway in its semi-bridge = mode, to work in front of my Netopia R910 router.  This = could be me or the Netopia, but I couldn't get it to work after = spending all night trying -- no connectivity.
=

Thank for trying to = help;

=
Elton

= ---------------------------
Sent from = my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
 =

On Aug = 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Greg Myers wrote:

=
Did you wait the needed two days after changing = the DNS entry to test it? Like I said, I am = totally guessing for possibilities, but impatience = with DNS changes is typically the problem that = bites me when I do similar changes. 
=

Greg = Myers
Chapel Hill, NC
=
Sent from my iPad
=

On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Elton <elton@ehdarby.com> = wrote:

=
=
=
=
=
Putting the static IP on the = WAN port makes perfect sense given = what you describe
=

= I guess it does, as my Netopia's WAN = setup defines the login and PAP/CHAP to = Bellsouth, as well as the NAT, = Compression Method, Firewall, etc., etc. = -- it just does not work with this = Comcast (2) IP/passthrough static setup = on their SMC that will not allow true = bridge-mode. 

=
If you are talking about a more = less complicated Netgear or Linksys = router interface, it does look simple to = do, but "not so much" with our (old = school) Netopia R910 -- maybe I'll just = get another router (just got burned the = last time I did this).

=
If I google topics related to = this Comcast SMC Gateway, problems seem = rampant in server environments and there = are a myriad of suggestions with no clear = solution -- so, it not just me ;)
=

=

=
I expected = some comment on your DNS settings. = The absence of such a comment makes = mean think that is the source of = your issues.
=

= I didn't comment on DNS my because the = Comcast SMC in front of the Netopia will = not work at all; no point in discussing = DNS if you have no internet at all.
=

=
The DNS worked fine with the = Comcast SMC acting a the primary router; = but I can use the SMC as my primary = router for the reasons outlined.

=
My DNS has pointed to my = Bellsouth DSL static IP, since 1996 -- = all has worked perfectly.  I moved my = registrar's (Network Solutions) pointers = to the Comcast static IP -- all = port-forwarding to my servers worked if = you are not inside the SMC's LAN with the = servers.  I recall this problem in = another office that used the Comcast SMC = when testing Windows 2003 server remote = desktop, you could not test from inside = the office LAN and learned that the = Comcast SMC will not properly handle port = forwarding when the calls originate from = the SMC's LAN.  Also port 8080 is = hardcoded as the SMC's remote admin port, = which is Tomcat's default port, etc. -- = this maybe another reason why Comcast = does not recommend using the SMC Gateway = as a primary router -- they encourage you = to use it as a bridge-mode TA, in front = of a "real router".  It would be = much easier to do this if they provided = such a device (as they used to do on = noe-business accounts) vs. this = problematic router without true = bridge-mode capabilities.

=

=
Elton

= ---------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless = Handheld
=
=
On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Greg Myers = wrote:

=
Putting the = static IP on the WAN port makes perfect = sense given what you describe, but I = expected some comment on your DNS = settings. The absence of such a comment = makes mean think that is the source of = your issues. Just a wild guess on my = part, but it is often a good place to = start.

=
Greg Myers
=
Chapel Hill, NC
=
Sent from my iPad
=

On Aug 22, = 2010, at 11:21 AM, Gib Henry <gib@realpeople.com> = wrote:

=
I've = heard horror tales about Comcast = broadband=97but then again, I can = tell you first-hand horror stories = about Bellsouth DSL.  Have you = looked at hiwaay.net?  = My experience with their = predecessors and with them was = nothing but positive; it's just that = they couldn't match cable speeds = (if/when Bright House/Road Runner is = working).  At least they make a = reliable backup for cable broadband.
=
And what about the power-grid = networks we were hearing about some = years ago?  The power companies = were going to offer phone and = internet across their powerlines, but = that hasn't materialized as far as I = know.
=
For some reason, American = DSL seems to be limited to about = 1.5Mbps down (and whatever they = throttle you to for upload), which = mystifies me, because in Europe, DSL = speeds can exceed 20Mbps.  I've = heard that our infrastructure (phone = lines) just won't do any better, but = my office is directly across the = street from the telco central = office...?  The fiber-optic = folks were interested in stringing a = line across the street, but not = enough users in the building were = willing to sign up (sigh).  = Cheers,
--
= <gib.png>
=   Gib

= On 8/21/10 6:00 PM, Elton wrote: =
I'm moving from = Bellsouth DSL to Comcast Business = Class.  Either I'm not getting = something, or the Comcast tech = support that I spoke to told me = wrong, but I cannot get the Comcast = SMC Gateway to work with our R910 = Netopia router (also learned that I = cannot use the Comcast SMC as a = primary router; will not route = properly inside the LAN to the WAN = back to our servers; assume this is = why few use it as a primary router in = a server environment, from what = Comcast tells me).  Comcast issued = me (2) IP#"; the Gateway's IP = #XX.XX.XX.106 and my static IP = #XX.XX.XX.105.  They told me how to = set the Comcast SMC Gateway to = "semi-bridge mode" (basically: turn = of everything, check the first 2 of 3 = features to all "True Static IP = Passthrough", uncheck "provide DHCP", = etc., then told me to connect out = router to the SMC Gateway, and go = into our router's WAN setup and = "assign it to the #105 static IP# = they issued" (which makes no sense, = IMO) -- I tried this 20-times, to no = avail.  Maybe its me or maybe its = our Netopia R910 (old school) router = (which is not so simple to do this = with it's: address translations, = compression, PAP/CHAP, firewall, = options, etc., etc. settings in the = WAN setup) -- but I could not get it = to work after spending all night = trying.  Reverted all back to the = Bellsouth/Netopia setup.

= Anyone have any experience with = this?
=
Thank!;
=
Elton
=
= ---------------------------
Sent = from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld =

=
= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- =
You = received this message because you are = subscribed to the mailing list <Helix-L@realpeople.com>.&nbs= p; To unsubscribe, e-mail <Helix-L-off@realpeople.com&= gt;; to switch to DIGEST mode, e-mail = <Helix-L-digest@realpeople.co= m>; contact a human being at = <Helix-L-request@realpeople.= com>.  Google archive = since 20 August 2006:  http://groups.google.com/g= roup/helix-l.  Basic archive = since 1 Jan 2006:  http://ma= il.realpeople.com:8100/Lists/Helix-L/List.html =

=
=
=
=

=
=

=
=

= --Apple-Mail-2--679308316--