Return-Path: Received: from asmtpout025.mac.com ([17.148.16.100] verified) by realpeople.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.16) with ESMTP id 1560196 for Helix-L@realpeople.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:12:51 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=realpeople.com; client-ip=17.148.16.100; envelope-from=ezgene@mac.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Uc25Lsd3Z4XrkjDimoAKVA)" Received: from [192.168.0.102] ([97.73.185.138]) by asmtp025.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0L7O008LQARWAI50@asmtp025.mac.com> for Helix-L@realpeople.com; Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=6.0.2-1004200000 definitions=main-1008240139 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.0.10011,1.0.148,0.0.0000 definitions=2010-08-24_10:2010-08-24,2010-08-24,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Message-id: <1B87537C-54CF-484F-BD4A-BDF5DD3E3337@mac.com> From: Gene Goosev To: Helix Discussion List In-reply-to: Subject: Re: [Hx] Comcast Business Class Hell - OFF Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:11:53 -0700 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) --Boundary_(ID_Uc25Lsd3Z4XrkjDimoAKVA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I have a direct experience that sounds similar. The final solution =20 after some days of fighting with Comcast was that the last Comcast =20 tech said the modem STILL had some rarely lifted firewall protections =20= in place even though it was supposedly in a full bridge mode. He =20 lifted them remotely from the modem, and then all our Apple Extreme =20 ports forwarding etc, worked perfectly, instantly. Just another two cents, Gene On Aug 23, 2010, at 6:36 AM, Elton Darby wrote: > >> Just for clarity though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS =20 >> propagation via a WhoIs and the Network Utility/Lookup in that =20 >> those will show it has propagated to the particular WhoIs server =20 >> you hit, and the DNS used by the machine running the Network =20 >> Utility; however, there still may be many incorrect DNS servers out =20= >> there unless you wait the full two days > > > I sticking with my contention, giving my experience this weekend, =20 > that it all happens much quicker that the claim of "up to 48 hours"; =20= > ie: I swapped my root DNS server from Bellsouth to Network Solutions =20= > and the terminating DNS IP# from Bellsouth to Comcast @ 1:00AM on =20 > 8.21.10 -- swapped the terminating IP back to Bellsouth's IP @ =20 > 8:00AM. It did not take very long for my email and other server =20 > calls to start working after each swap. BTW: If it seriously took =20 > 48 hours after each change, I would not be receiving email yet and =20 > we would not have been able to discuss this topic thru the weekend ;) > > Thanks again for trying to help; > > Elton > > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > On Aug 22, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Greg Myers wrote: > >> I don't doubt DNS is not your problem at this point. If you indeed =20= >> have no Internet at all (can't even ping a known IP address) over =20 >> the connection, it is not likely a DNS issue. Just for clarity =20 >> though, you can only somewhat monitor DNS propagation via a WhoIs =20 >> and the Network Utility/Lookup in that those will show it has =20 >> propagated to the particular WhoIs server you hit, and the DNS used =20= >> by the machine running the Network Utility; however, there still =20 >> may be many incorrect DNS servers out there unless you wait the =20 >> full two days. That time about one day in when whether a request =20 >> goes to the new address or the old address seems totally random is =20= >> particularly annoying. >> >> I am blessed with no firsthand knowledge of using the services of =20 >> Comcast, and I'm sorry you can't make the same claim. ;) >> >> Greg Myers >> Chapel Hill, NC >> >> >> On 8/22/10 4:33 PM, Elton wrote: >>> >>> I do not have DNS problems; yes I waited for the DNS to propagate =20= >>> the change to the Comcast static IP's -- then I waited for it to =20 >>> propagate back to Bellsouth's static IP, after I gave up with =20 >>> Comcast. Such is generally much quicker than the "up to 48 hour" =20= >>> claim; you can monitor it via a WhoIs and the Network Utility/=20 >>> Lookup functions. >>> >>> My problem is I can't use the Comcast SMC Gateway as my primary =20 >>> router in our server environment for the reasons outlined (seems =20 >>> to be a common problem, as confirmed by Comcast as other via =20 >>> google boards) -- no problem in my other 4 offices that don't have =20= >>> servers. >>> >>> My question has nothing to do with DNS, but connectivity at this =20 >>> point; I can't get the Comcast SMC Gateway in its semi-=20 >>> bridge mode, to work in front of my Netopia R910 router. This =20 >>> could be me or the Netopia, but I couldn't get it to work after =20 >>> spending all night trying -- no connectivity. >>> >>> Thank for trying to help; >>> >>> Elton >>> >>> --------------------------- >>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Greg Myers wrote: >>> >>>> Did you wait the needed two days after changing the DNS entry to =20= >>>> test it? Like I said, I am totally guessing for possibilities, =20 >>>> but impatience with DNS changes is typically the problem that =20 >>>> bites me when I do similar changes. >>>> >>>> Greg Myers >>>> Chapel Hill, NC >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Elton wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Putting the static IP on the WAN port makes perfect sense given =20= >>>>>> what you describe >>>>> >>>>> I guess it does, as my Netopia's WAN setup defines the login and =20= >>>>> PAP/CHAP to Bellsouth, as well as the NAT, Compression Method, =20 >>>>> Firewall, etc., etc. -- it just does not work with this Comcast =20= >>>>> (2) IP/passthrough static setup on their SMC that will not allow =20= >>>>> true bridge-mode. >>>>> >>>>> If you are talking about a more less complicated Netgear or =20 >>>>> Linksys router interface, it does look simple to do, but "not so =20= >>>>> much" with our (old school) Netopia R910 -- maybe I'll just get =20= >>>>> another router (just got burned the last time I did this). >>>>> >>>>> If I google topics related to this Comcast SMC Gateway, problems =20= >>>>> seem rampant in server environments and there are a myriad of =20 >>>>> suggestions with no clear solution -- so, it not just me ;) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I expected some comment on your DNS settings. The absence of =20 >>>>>> such a comment makes mean think that is the source of your =20 >>>>>> issues. >>>>> >>>>> I didn't comment on DNS my because the Comcast SMC in front of =20 >>>>> the Netopia will not work at all; no point in discussing DNS if =20= >>>>> you have no internet at all. >>>>> >>>>> The DNS worked fine with the Comcast SMC acting a the primary =20 >>>>> router; but I can use the SMC as my =20 >>>>> primary router for the reasons =20 >>>>> outlined. >>>>> >>>>> My DNS has pointed to my Bellsouth DSL static IP, since 1996 -- =20= >>>>> all has worked perfectly. I moved my registrar's (Network =20 >>>>> Solutions) pointers to the Comcast static IP -- all port-=20 >>>>> forwarding to my servers worked if you are not inside the SMC's =20= >>>>> LAN with the servers. I recall this problem in another office =20 >>>>> that used the Comcast SMC when testing Windows 2003 server =20 >>>>> remote desktop, you could not test from inside the office LAN =20 >>>>> and learned that the Comcast SMC will not properly handle port =20 >>>>> forwarding when the calls originate from the SMC's LAN. Also =20 >>>>> port 8080 is hardcoded as the SMC's remote admin port, which is =20= >>>>> Tomcat's default port, etc. -- this maybe another reason why =20 >>>>> Comcast does not recommend using the SMC Gateway as a primary =20 >>>>> router -- they encourage you to use it as a bridge-mode TA, in =20 >>>>> front of a "real router". It would be much easier to do this if =20= >>>>> they provided such a device (as they used to do on noe-business =20= >>>>> accounts) vs. this problematic router without true bridge-mode =20 >>>>> capabilities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Elton >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------- >>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Greg Myers wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Putting the static IP on the WAN port makes perfect sense given =20= >>>>>> what you describe, but I expected some comment on your DNS =20 >>>>>> settings. The absence of such a comment makes mean think that =20 >>>>>> is the source of your issues. Just a wild guess on my part, but =20= >>>>>> it is often a good place to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg Myers >>>>>> Chapel Hill, NC >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Gib Henry =20 >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've heard horror tales about Comcast broadband=97but then =20 >>>>>>> again, I can tell you first-hand horror stories about =20 >>>>>>> Bellsouth DSL. Have you looked at hiwaay.net? My experience =20= >>>>>>> with their predecessors and with them was nothing but =20 >>>>>>> positive; it's just that they couldn't match cable speeds (if/=20= >>>>>>> when Bright House/Road Runner is working). At least they make =20= >>>>>>> a reliable backup for cable broadband. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what about the power-grid networks we were hearing about =20 >>>>>>> some years ago? The power companies were going to offer phone =20= >>>>>>> and internet across their powerlines, but that hasn't =20 >>>>>>> materialized as far as I know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For some reason, American DSL seems to be limited to about =20 >>>>>>> 1.5Mbps down (and whatever they throttle you to for upload), =20 >>>>>>> which mystifies me, because in Europe, DSL speeds can exceed =20 >>>>>>> 20Mbps. I've heard that our infrastructure (phone lines) just =20= >>>>>>> won't do any better, but my office is directly across the =20 >>>>>>> street from the telco central office...? The fiber-optic =20 >>>>>>> folks were interested in stringing a line across the street, =20 >>>>>>> but not enough users in the building were willing to sign up =20 >>>>>>> (sigh). Cheers, >>>>>>> --=20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gib >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/21/10 6:00 PM, Elton wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm moving from Bellsouth DSL to Comcast Business Class. =20 >>>>>>>> Either I'm not getting something, or the Comcast tech support =20= >>>>>>>> that I spoke to told me wrong, but I cannot get the Comcast =20 >>>>>>>> SMC Gateway to work with our R910 Netopia router (also =20 >>>>>>>> learned that I cannot use the Comcast SMC as a primary =20 >>>>>>>> router; will not route properly inside the LAN to the WAN =20 >>>>>>>> back to our servers; assume this is why few use it as a =20 >>>>>>>> primary router in a server environment, from what Comcast =20 >>>>>>>> tells me). Comcast issued me (2) IP#"; the Gateway's IP =20 >>>>>>>> #XX.XX.XX.106 and my static IP #XX.XX.XX.105. They told me =20 >>>>>>>> how to set the Comcast SMC Gateway to "semi-bridge =20 >>>>>>>> mode" (basically: turn of everything, check the first 2 of 3 =20= >>>>>>>> features to all "True Static IP Passthrough", uncheck =20 >>>>>>>> "provide DHCP", etc., then told me to connect out router to =20 >>>>>>>> the SMC Gateway, and go into our router's WAN setup and =20 >>>>>>>> "assign it to the #105 static IP# they issued" (which makes =20 >>>>>>>> no sense, IMO) -- I tried this 20-times, to no avail. Maybe =20= >>>>>>>> its me or maybe its our Netopia R910 (old school) router =20 >>>>>>>> (which is not so simple to do this with it's: address =20 >>>>>>>> translations, compression, PAP/CHAP, firewall, options, etc., =20= >>>>>>>> etc. settings in the WAN setup) -- but I could not get it to =20= >>>>>>>> work after spending all night trying. Reverted all back to =20 >>>>>>>> the Bellsouth/Netopia setup. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone have any experience with this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank!; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Elton >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=20 >>>>>>>> =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the =20 >>>>>>>> mailing list . To unsubscribe, e-=20 >>>>>>>> mail ; to switch to DIGEST mode, =20= >>>>>>>> e-mail ; contact a human being =20= >>>>>>>> at . Google archive since 20 =20= >>>>>>>> August 2006: http://groups.google.com/group/helix-l. Basic =20= >>>>>>>> archive since 1 Jan 2006: = http://mail.realpeople.com:8100/Lists/Helix-L/List.html >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>> > --Boundary_(ID_Uc25Lsd3Z4XrkjDimoAKVA) Content-type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I have a direct experience that = sounds similar. The final solution after some days of fighting with = Comcast was that the last Comcast tech said the modem STILL had some = rarely lifted firewall protections in place even though it was = supposedly in a full bridge mode. He lifted them remotely from the = modem, and then all our Apple Extreme ports forwarding etc, worked = perfectly, instantly. 

Just another two = cents,
Gene

On Aug 23, 2010, at = 6:36 AM, Elton Darby wrote:


Just for clarity though, you can only = somewhat monitor DNS propagation via a WhoIs and the Network = Utility/Lookup in that those will show it has propagated to the = particular WhoIs server you hit, and the DNS used by the machine running = the Network Utility; however, there still may be many incorrect DNS = servers out there unless you wait the full two = days


I sticking with my = contention, giving my experience this weekend, that it all happens much = quicker that the claim of "up to 48 hours"; ie: I swapped my root DNS = server from Bellsouth to Network Solutions and the terminating DNS IP# = from Bellsouth to Comcast @ 1:00AM on 8.21.10 -- swapped the terminating = IP back to Bellsouth's IP @ 8:00AM.  It did not take very long for = my email and other server calls to start working after each swap. =  BTW: If it seriously took 48 hours after each change, I would not = be receiving email yet and we would not have been able to discuss this = topic thru the weekend ;)

Thanks again for trying to help;

Elton

--------------------------
Sent from my = BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

On Aug = 22, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Greg Myers wrote:

I = don't doubt DNS is not your problem at this point. If you indeed have = no Internet at all (can't even ping a known IP address) over the = connection, it is not likely a DNS issue. Just for clarity though, = you can only somewhat monitor DNS propagation via a WhoIs and the = Network Utility/Lookup in that those will show it has propagated to = the particular WhoIs server you hit, and the DNS used by the machine = running the Network Utility; however, there still may be many = incorrect DNS servers out there unless you wait the full two days. = That time about one day in when whether a request goes to the new = address or the old address seems totally random is particularly = annoying.

I am blessed with no firsthand knowledge of = using the services of Comcast, and I'm sorry you can't make the same = claim. ;)

Greg Myers
= Chapel Hill, NC


On 8/22/10 = 4:33 PM, Elton wrote:
I do not = have DNS problems; yes I waited for the DNS to propagate the change = to the Comcast static IP's -- then I waited for it to propagate = back to Bellsouth's static IP, after I gave up with Comcast. =  Such is generally much quicker than the "up to 48 hour" = claim; you can monitor it via a WhoIs and the Network = Utility/Lookup functions.

My = problem is I can't use the Comcast SMC Gateway as my primary = router in our server environment for the reasons outlined (seems = to be a common problem, as confirmed by Comcast as other via = google boards) -- no problem in my other 4 offices that don't = have servers.  

My = question has nothing to do with DNS, but connectivity at this = point; I can't get the Comcast SMC Gateway in its semi-bridge = mode, to work in front of my Netopia R910 router.  This = could be me or the Netopia, but I couldn't get it to work after = spending all night trying -- no connectivity.
=

Thank for trying to = help;

=
Elton

= ---------------------------
Sent from = my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
 =

On Aug = 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Greg Myers wrote:

=
Did you wait the needed two days after changing = the DNS entry to test it? Like I said, I am = totally guessing for possibilities, but impatience = with DNS changes is typically the problem that = bites me when I do similar changes. 
=

Greg = Myers
Chapel Hill, NC
=
Sent from my iPad
=

On Aug 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Elton <elton@ehdarby.com> = wrote:

=
=
=
=
=
Putting the static IP on the = WAN port makes perfect sense given = what you describe
=

= I guess it does, as my Netopia's WAN = setup defines the login and PAP/CHAP to = Bellsouth, as well as the NAT, = Compression Method, Firewall, etc., etc. = -- it just does not work with this = Comcast (2) IP/passthrough static setup = on their SMC that will not allow true = bridge-mode. 

=
If you are talking about a more = less complicated Netgear or Linksys = router interface, it does look simple to = do, but "not so much" with our (old = school) Netopia R910 -- maybe I'll just = get another router (just got burned the = last time I did this).

=
If I google topics related to = this Comcast SMC Gateway, problems seem = rampant in server environments and there = are a myriad of suggestions with no clear = solution -- so, it not just me ;)
=

=

=
I expected = some comment on your DNS settings. = The absence of such a comment makes = mean think that is the source of = your issues.
=

= I didn't comment on DNS my because the = Comcast SMC in front of the Netopia will = not work at all; no point in discussing = DNS if you have no internet at all.
=

=
The DNS worked fine with the = Comcast SMC acting a the primary router; = but I can use the SMC as my primary = router for the reasons outlined.

=
My DNS has pointed to my = Bellsouth DSL static IP, since 1996 -- = all has worked perfectly.  I moved my = registrar's (Network Solutions) pointers = to the Comcast static IP -- all = port-forwarding to my servers worked if = you are not inside the SMC's LAN with the = servers.  I recall this problem in = another office that used the Comcast SMC = when testing Windows 2003 server remote = desktop, you could not test from inside = the office LAN and learned that the = Comcast SMC will not properly handle port = forwarding when the calls originate from = the SMC's LAN.  Also port 8080 is = hardcoded as the SMC's remote admin port, = which is Tomcat's default port, etc. -- = this maybe another reason why Comcast = does not recommend using the SMC Gateway = as a primary router -- they encourage you = to use it as a bridge-mode TA, in front = of a "real router".  It would be = much easier to do this if they provided = such a device (as they used to do on = noe-business accounts) vs. this = problematic router without true = bridge-mode capabilities.

=

=
Elton

= ---------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless = Handheld
=
=
On Aug 22, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Greg Myers = wrote:

=
Putting the = static IP on the WAN port makes perfect = sense given what you describe, but I = expected some comment on your DNS = settings. The absence of such a comment = makes mean think that is the source of = your issues. Just a wild guess on my = part, but it is often a good place to = start.

=
Greg Myers
=
Chapel Hill, NC
=
Sent from my iPad
=

On Aug 22, = 2010, at 11:21 AM, Gib Henry <gib@realpeople.com> = wrote:

=
I've = heard horror tales about Comcast = broadband=97but then again, I can = tell you first-hand horror stories = about Bellsouth DSL.  Have you = looked at hiwaay.net?  = My experience with their = predecessors and with them was = nothing but positive; it's just that = they couldn't match cable speeds = (if/when Bright House/Road Runner is = working).  At least they make a = reliable backup for cable broadband.
=
And what about the power-grid = networks we were hearing about some = years ago?  The power companies = were going to offer phone and = internet across their powerlines, but = that hasn't materialized as far as I = know.
=
For some reason, American = DSL seems to be limited to about = 1.5Mbps down (and whatever they = throttle you to for upload), which = mystifies me, because in Europe, DSL = speeds can exceed 20Mbps.  I've = heard that our infrastructure (phone = lines) just won't do any better, but = my office is directly across the = street from the telco central = office...?  The fiber-optic = folks were interested in stringing a = line across the street, but not = enough users in the building were = willing to sign up (sigh).  = Cheers,
--
= <gib.png>
=   Gib

= On 8/21/10 6:00 PM, Elton wrote: =
I'm moving from = Bellsouth DSL to Comcast Business = Class.  Either I'm not getting = something, or the Comcast tech = support that I spoke to told me = wrong, but I cannot get the Comcast = SMC Gateway to work with our R910 = Netopia router (also learned that I = cannot use the Comcast SMC as a = primary router; will not route = properly inside the LAN to the WAN = back to our servers; assume this is = why few use it as a primary router in = a server environment, from what = Comcast tells me).  Comcast issued = me (2) IP#"; the Gateway's IP = #XX.XX.XX.106 and my static IP = #XX.XX.XX.105.  They told me how to = set the Comcast SMC Gateway to = "semi-bridge mode" (basically: turn = of everything, check the first 2 of 3 = features to all "True Static IP = Passthrough", uncheck "provide DHCP", = etc., then told me to connect out = router to the SMC Gateway, and go = into our router's WAN setup and = "assign it to the #105 static IP# = they issued" (which makes no sense, = IMO) -- I tried this 20-times, to no = avail.  Maybe its me or maybe its = our Netopia R910 (old school) router = (which is not so simple to do this = with it's: address translations, = compression, PAP/CHAP, firewall, = options, etc., etc. settings in the = WAN setup) -- but I could not get it = to work after spending all night = trying.  Reverted all back to the = Bellsouth/Netopia setup.

= Anyone have any experience with = this?
=
Thank!;
=
Elton
=
= ---------------------------
Sent = from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld =

=
= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- =
You = received this message because you are = subscribed to the mailing list <Helix-L@realpeople.com>.&nbs= p; To unsubscribe, e-mail <Helix-L-off@realpeople.com&= gt;; to switch to DIGEST mode, e-mail = <Helix-L-digest@realpeople.co= m>; contact a human being at = <Helix-L-request@realpeople.= com>.  Google archive = since 20 August 2006:  http://groups.google.com/g= roup/helix-l.  Basic archive = since 1 Jan 2006:  http://ma= il.realpeople.com:8100/Lists/Helix-L/List.html =

=
=
=
=

=
=

=
=


= --Boundary_(ID_Uc25Lsd3Z4XrkjDimoAKVA)--